In continuation of the series “Initial Steps“, excerpts from a conversation occurred between Director Anurag Kashyap(AK), and Ajay Brahmatmaj (AB) & Pravesh Bhardwaj, are presented here.
[Following is the loose translation of the Hindi Interview and may not do full justice to the original interview. Its advisable that one should go through the original interview to read the exact sayings of Anurag Kashyap. This is simply a trial to expose the interview to those readers who can not read Hindi at all]
AB: “I want to make a film”. When you developed this thought? How and where this journey was started?
AK: In a way this journey was started from the International film festival of Delhi held in 1993. In the retrospective section I saw the films of Vittorio De Sica. I saw The Children are watching us and The Bicycle Thief etc there. I saw The Match factory girl also at that time. These films impressed me a lot.
AB: What were you doing in Delhi then?
AK: I was member of Jan Natya Manch. We used to do street plays. I was confused, rather highly confused, at that time. I did not know what to do? I had no clear direction at that time. I felt that I should do something in the films. I was studying Zoology at that time but I had destroyed all academics related plans by the third year. I talked to my father and told him that I wanted to go to Bombay to do something. He was very angry at me and he asked me what would I do in Bombay? I fought at the home and made excuses and took five thousand rupees with me and ran away from the home and came to Mumbai. I had an idea that I wanted to do something in the films but that something was an unknown thing for me. I knew nothing about filmmaking. How films are made and what is the process, all things were so alien to me. I had seen De Sica’s films. That was my only real exposure. Before that I had limited exposure of watching the cinema. We were shown two films a week in the club in our childhood. By the age of six I used to watch films in that fashion only.
AB: Which kind of club was it?
AK: My childhood was spent around Obra power station in Renukut in U.P. There was only one theatre and that too was constructed before me. In the government club in our colony they used to show the films in open air. I saw Aandhi and Kora Kagaz there. I was four or five years old then and I did not know why I was watching the films and what I was watching in those films.
You see I am sitting there staring at screen and my mouth is open. My father is trying to send me away saying that these films are made for adults and not for kids but I continue watching them.
Why I was watching was beyond my comprehensions then perhaps I was too mesmerised by the cinema. Images of those films are still lying in my memory. Once I joined the hostel and this continuity of watching the cinema regularly was broken. Sometimes they used to show a film on Saturday. Do Badan was the favourite film of our Principal so it was shown to us atleast ten times.
I studied at Dehradun and then I was sent to study in Scindia school in Gwaliar. So continuity to watch films regularly was broken for some 12-13 years. Absence of cinema somewhere affected me and when I reached Delhi I started watching the films in such a fashion as if I was taking the revenge. I used to watch hindi films screened in the cinema halls situated near University. Then I saw The Untouchables and started watching English films and for next three years I saw films like Die Hard. 1993’s international film festival introduced me to real and good cinema and my real exposure to cinema was stated there only. But at that time I had no access in the cine world. Later I came to Mumbai and started my real journey.
AB: Please tell us about your initial phase in Mumbai.
AK: I did many things in Mumbai. I was doing theatre. I was doing acting but I was unable to understand if I was really doing acting or it was just for the sake of doing something. Confusion was there and no direction was clear to me. I was unable to decipher to whom I should go. I was working with different kind of people. I was living on roads. That frustrated phase led me to write a play. Govind Nihalani and Sayeed Mirza liked that play. I felt that Govind ji was giving me a credit without any real reason. I thought I knew what was my capability and where I stood? He gave me the play of Ibsen. He gave me Kafka’s The Trial. He was doing a series then. He asked me to adapt it and said that I could do it. I read The Trial and became confused. I thought how a film could be made on this? I thought that an animation film could be made on it. Govind Ji asked me to think more and more. I became so frustrated with myself that I went in to a shell and stopped receiving Govind Ji’s phone calls. I stopped meeting him.
Then by chance I met a man, Pankaj Titoria. He was also doing theatre. He took me to Shivam Nair. From there a different journey was started for me. A man had brought the tape of Taxi Driver there. He was very excited. We saw the film on a dirty VCR. I got a strange fascination with Martin Scorsese’s Taxi Driver. Sriram Raghvan, Sridhar Raghvan, Shiv Subrhamanyam were also there. I told all of them that I wanted to write. I started going there. I used to sit silently in a corner. Shivam used to sit silently. Sriram had a problem in speaking his thoughts. Sridhar used to speak continuously and I became interested in his talks. Whatever names he used to quote I used to note them down silently. But I was unable to search those books. One day I asked him from where he was getting those books? He took me to Santa Cruz station. I found many books there in the book shops and one writer carried me to some other writer. Extensive reading made me bit disturbed also inside.
Then I got a work also to write a film on the life of Nagarajan. I started writing and structure came automatically to me. Oma Swaroop liked my script. I was eagerly waiting now for the day when shooting w’d be started. But before Nagarajan, another film Auto Shankar was supposed to be made and I said that start making it or make Nagarajan first. They were not able to sort out the script for the Auto Shankar. When I reached the office they were discussing to halt the shooting. I felt a fear that this might affect the beginning of the film on Nagarajan.
I said,”Sir what is the problem. Make it or start Nagarajan instead”.
They felt a 21 year old boy was desperate to start film on his first script.
They said,” No its not like this. It does not happen like this. First we have to make Auto Shakar. Everything is clear”.
I asked,” What is the problem then”?
They said,”Script is not working”.
I said,” Let me read the script. Let me write it again”.
All people started looking at me with strange expressions on their faces. But they said to Shiv,” Let him try. What is the harm”?
They warned me,” But keep in mind that shooting has to be started on day after tomorrow”.
I boasted,” Sir, don’t worry, I start writing now and will finish it tonight and will give you in the morning”.
I had a lot of energy and I wrote whole night and finished the script and kept in the office and went to sleep.
Next day I got up at 1.30 P.M and found that Sriram and other people were reading the script written by me. Something happened inside them and they developed a new view about me. I got an access and shooting was started. And Film was shot as per my script. I had written it as per my own understanding at that time.
Shiv Subrahmanyam said,” Anurag has written the script so he must be given the credit in a proper way”.
In a way Shiv, Shivam and Sriram helped me to develop my skills and motivated me. I got an access to the TV and VCR. I was allowed to watch films there. I started bringing tapes and watching different kind of films.
Nagarajan was not getting any progress. Manoj Bajpai had done Daud at that time and Ram Gopal Verma liked his work and said to him,” I have got an idea. I have to make a film, with you. You should bring me a new writer.”
Manoj Said,” I know one writer. Anurag fits here”.
Manoj came to me and said,” Ram Gopal Verma wants to meet you”.
I was surprised to listen this and said,” Yes”.
Just 2-3 days before we had seen Rangeela.
So Journey of Satya started from there. I have left many things which I think did not contribute much.
There was an incident with Mahesh Bhatt also but I don’t think that is important for me.
AB: Still you may find some more things to share out of those things which you are leaving?
AK: I had started writing Panch but then it was named as Miraj. I had started writing script of Miraj in 1995, in the days of Nagarajan and Auto Shankar before Satya came my way. I would not call script of Miraj as a film. I had written some 40 pages. I went to Luke Kenny and gave him a narration. Luke was an actor and I had seen him in Vikram Kapadia’s play. There was a film Fun. I searched it a lot for years and today I have this film with me. Something of this film inspired me a lot. Fun had a structure and if you compare Panch with it then you may get some similarities in the structuring of both the films. Auto Shankar, Train to Mahakali and Paanch have similar pattern and formulation. I traced and I got similar pattern in Fun also. I can analyze it because I myself have done it.
AB: Signature of Anurag Kashyap was moulded then?
AK: Yes. A new journey was started. I realised that all of my three writings have got a pattern.
AB: After realising your potential of being a writer did you know if you were going in right direction?
AK: I felt inside. When I had written first draft of Miraj then it was up to the first half only. No murder or killing was involved at that stage. It was the journey of a man who had no money and who was wandering on roads in search of smoking the Ganja. I had written the bus scene. So many characters and situations were written. I could associate my writing with my way of living then.
AB: Was there a conscious effort to make a different impact in cinema?
AK: No. Truth was that when I saw the films of De Sica, when I saw Taxi Driver and Fun then I got a realisation that inside me I can associate with this kind of films. I used to watch Hindi films but I used to feel that some story is shown which is about somebody else or characters are not known to me. Perhaps this is the cinema. Fun, De Sica’s films and Scorsese’s films made me realise that cinema is about me also.
People may have different definitions of Noir but I have my own definition of Noir. Its meaning is different for me. For me Noir is the story of underdog. For me it’s a goal. For me its an atmosphere. In real life we see many things and different people and happenings but we don’t pay any attention. All have their own stories. I thought that cinema is about that person also. This understanding gave me a confidence and made it clear before me what kind of cinema is there with which I can feel my association and what I have to do in cinema. Earlier I used to feel awkward and that was finished once I searched my place in cinema and I searched my type of cinema. Earlier I used to feel that I can not do anything because whatever I think is nothing but foolishness. I had a reservation that If told anyone my ideas then they would laugh over me. I did not know Urdu which was language of Hindi cinema. My Hindi was very good but when I was writing. My spoken ability was not good.
AB: You used to speak in English?
AK: No I was not speaking in English either. I had a mixed kind of language. A Khichadi bhasha. Means, you have studied in boarding school where everybody speaks in English and you don’t know English. You speak in Hindi. What is special with you? You win the essay competition in Hindi. You defeat students of 12th standard when you are studying in 9th standard. You have no competition in Hindi and nobody can match you in Hindi in entire school. When you write History then you create your own stories. Teacher passes you and you feel he is such a foolish person. I was game only in Hindi. I was able to write good in Hindi but I was not a public speaker.
AB: Anurag Kashyap as a boy did not have confidence. From where he got such a self confidence which has brought him here at this stage?
AK: I would like to tell you that I had a habit to create stories since childhood. I used to tell my younger brothers and sisters that I saw this and this film and it happened there in this way. They used to feel that their brother was so profound and he watched so many films. Though in reality I was not watching them. I had no other means than TV to watch the films. There was a video parlour where I used to watch Nadiya Ke Paar. There I developed this skill to create stories. I used to read Manohar Kahaniya Satya Katha type magazines. I was doing it without revealing to anyone.
AB: You were reading stories of sex and crime. These subjects allured you?
AK: Yes I liked reading stories of crime. I am coming to that point only. As I see today then I can realise that biggest thing in my life came at certain stage of my life. When did I get complex?
During summer holidays I used to go to Lucknow or my village or Balia where there was a book shop. I used to read novels of Ved Prakash Sharma, Surendra Mohan Pathak and Ranu there. If my father was passing through there then I used to pretend as if I was reading Hardy Boys. He used to get impression that his son was reading English books but as soon as he left the place I was again with the hindi novels. One of my cousin used to read these novels and she also used to give me those books. I liked reading and I was spending time sitting in a corner with the books. Somewhere a guilt feeling was also developing inside me. After summer vacations when I reached back to the hostel then I got a desire to write something for school magazine. I became member of Sahitya Sabha of our school and wrote my first story. I was in 7th standard then. Story was about a boy who is living with many complexes and another boy is disturbing him a lot. Title of the story was “Big Shift”. Whatever I was feeling in the school I had written all those things in the story. Scindia school was for riches. I was the poorest student there. On the day of Diwali when all other students used to wear new and coloured clothes I used to wear my uniform. My relative poverty was visible from my appearance. I did not have even a watch. So I used to suffer from some kind of inferiority complex all the time. All people used to speak fluently in English and I used to speak fluently in Hindi. On that complex I had written the story.
One of my teachers, Pt Atmaram Sharma, read the story and asked me,” Son, from where you have stolen this story”.
I said,” I have not stolen it from anywhere and I have written it myself”.
He cursed me a lot and said,” You are not speaking truth. You must be genuine”.
I did not know the meaning of the word, genuine. In the night I searched its meaning in the dictionary.
Then I wrote a poem when I was in 8th standard. In my poem, a boy wants to commit suicide. Teachers got worried after reading my poem and my father was informed about my mentality.
I said,” I have written my feelings. I feel to write poetry inside. These people make me feel this way and I want to write”.
So my treatment was started. Counselling was started. I was insisting that I wanted to write. My father was disturbed because of these developments.
Principal started giving me special attention. Nothing of my written things was published in school magazine. I was told that I did not know how to write.
I was angry and in 9th standard I started participating in essay competition and started winning. I felt that my thinking process was continued all the time. Many things accumulate in mind after reading and though references are not recalled but things are recalled at times. I remember when Asiad 82 was organised and I wrote a mammoth sized essay on it and inserted so many things from here and there. I had so much accumulation inside and when started writing it all came out like vomiting.
So I passed through that kind of writing process. Teachers had given me the complex that I could not write. They questioned my way of writing so many different things under a given subject. In such an atmosphere you start feeling like an alien, a foreign element. Besides this you become the laughing matter for others. You are someone who does not know English.
My father gifted me a watch in 9th standard. It was a Titan watch and it was launched then. All the people in the school used to ask me,”Which Company’s watch you have got?”
I used to pronounce ,” Taitan”.
People used to tease me,” You should say titan and not TAITAN”.
All these things affected me deeply. Because of these things I did not like meeting anyone and used to spend time in the library. We had an amazing library there.
I had taken shelter in the library to stay away from all the other people. I started with Premchand’s Mansarovar. Short stories are the easiest things to read in the beginning. A new journey was started there as far as reading was concerned.
Library had become most favourite place for me. I started pulp fiction also. Later I read the originals also and got to know how Surendra Mohan Pathak, Gulshan Nanda and Colonel Ranjeet used to steal the matter.
I used to feel that all people were taking shelter in stealing and I was doubted and told that I was not a genuinely creative person.
AB: That boy still exists who wanted to do progress and wanted to create his own place? That desire still exists?
AK: He still exists. Desire still exists somewhere.
AB: You wrote a script and decided that you would direct it?
AK: This thing was evolved as a process. I took 6 years to develop the script. Idea was changed a bit. I mean to say Paanch is not that film which I wanted to make when first I had started writing the script. I had written only half of the script in the beginning so that film was never completed. Later when I finished the script and took it to many people then they said that film could not be made like this.
I tried a lot but it did not materialise.
I said,”Go to hell. If its not made then I also would not make any other film. If I have to make then I will make this film only”.
I had camera in my hands at the time of Satya only. Ram Gopal Verma instructed me,” Satya comes to Mumbai and now shoot this portion in a Mumbaiya atmosphere”.
I came under the excitement and I was feeling that I had become a director.
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I am there at the set to tell what should be done.
Actor is telling cameraman that he should take this shot or that shot and I am not able to express my idea.
My mind is creating lots of ideas but I am unable to express those ideas.
I try to say that lets take this shot and in this way.
Tape is brought before Ram Gopal Verma and he says,” What is this nonsense. Who has shot it. I had asked you to shoot”?
I say,” Yes Sir, but they did not let me do the way I thought”. I complain about this and that.
RGV says,” This way you will make a film. Why you could not shoot the scenes as you wanted”.
I say,” All people are older than me and they know more than me”.
RGV says,” Nobody knows more”.
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So I got a confidence. And I started taking out cameraman Gerard Hooper with me. A lot of ideas started coming in the mind. It was occasion of Ganpati and I got an idea to shoot the Ganapati visarjan. We were told that we had got mad.
But We shot the whole atmosphere of actual Ganapati visarjan. I felt that I also could manage the things and I could say like a cameraman also. Earlier a writer was born inside me and now I was getting in to other aspects of filmmaking.
So I started developing the story of Shool. RGV had told me once that how a custom officer had not spared even Amitabh Bachchan because he was doing his duty.
I took that attitude and created my story around BHU in Banaras. First I was told that I would direct the Shool but later something happened and things started changing.
I wanted to make the film in my way. First I was asked to make changes in the second half. I said that I would not write but I would accompany. Shool was made and released.
Similar things happened with Kaun also. The script which I had written was not used completely. Some improvisations were also there.
RGV lost initial six pages of my script and he started reading from the 7th page and he started his film from that page only.
For me first six pages were very important and I had an attachment also with my script.
I faced similar situations in Mission Kashmir also. I was excited to get that offer. I went to Kashmir and did proper research. I studied Operation Topaz and role of General Zia Ul Haq in it. I wrote all these things in the script of Mission Kashmir. But when film was started then all those important things on which Mission Kashmir was based were removed. We were getting all kinds of help from Farooq Abdullah and armed forces but new things were inserted in the script and so many important things written by me were removed. I was very upset with the attitude of Vidhu Vinod Chopra.
All these and similar things were accumulating inside me and I felt that I should direct my own films.
The film Madholal Keep Walking, releasing on 27th August,2010, is directed by Jai Tank. Staring- Subrat Dutta, Pranay Narayan, Swara, Ashok Mishra and many more. 
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