In continuation with the first part of the interview - Ashutosh Gowarikar..I missed the Prem's role in Maine Pyar Kiya, taken by Ajay Brahmatmaj, second and concluding part is presented here.
AB: If you had become a successful actor then we could not have got film like Lagaan and we could have missed the director Ashutosh Gowarikar also.
AG: Yes Yes?I have thought on this many a times. I am not certain about what actor Ashutsoh Gowarikar could have done after becoming successful? But if my early two films Pehla Nasha and Baazi had worked even then also Lagaan could not have been made. It was possible then that in my old age perhaps I could have tried to make such a film. Perhaps there would not have been existed any need to do so. My producers may feel bad but failure of pehla Nasha and Baazi proved to be beneficial to me. Because of their failures I could make a film like Lagaan.
AB: How could you gather courage to write Lagaan? Sitting on two flop films, having an image of a failed actor, there should be some kind of desperation with you. Even then you showed a courage to write such a different film. Family pressures might have been there because by then you were a married man and had kids also.
AG: I got the courage from my efforts to search within myself only. After knowing and accepting my minus points, I opted new approach and attitude and thus could write Lagaan. I did not write Lagaan under any frustration. I had nothing to prove to anyone. I did not want to change the film industry. The people who said that Ashutosh Gowarikar?s career as a director was finished, they all were right because I had made two bad films in the past.
Now I can say that I saw, studied and understood classic films of Indian cinema and got to know how big filmmakers could make those films? And they got success also.
I was searching new things while maintaining the traditions.
When I wrote Lagaan then it was an impossible kind of story. Story was about a small village in 1893. Village stands against the British empire and villagers play cricket match with Britishers to get exempted of paying the lagaan.
Strange story!
Isn?t it?
Anybody w’d show me door after listening such a story.
Aamir Khan also denied in the first hearing.
First reaction will be like this only ? tsch tsch lets talk something else.
Then I narrated in detailed manner.
How I will do it?
What will be the emotional content,
where drama will be,
how much romance will be there,
how humour will enter?
While writing all this I was searching and getting something substantial.
When a director having two flop films to his credit narrates such a story then it is but obvious that people will say NO.
Perhaps if somebody had brought this story to me then I also would have rejected it.
If I see from Aamir?s point of view then I salute him.
First he accepted the role of Bhuvan and second he became ready to produce the film. Aamir has sixth sense to identify the director.
AB: Lets go little back. What you thought when you made Pehla Nasha? Such films were in a rage then or you had a planning behind it?
AG: Murder mystery!
I felt that there were less number of films made in this genre and a curiosity factor is always present in murder mysteries.
Baazi had a sole purpose to present Aamir Khan as an action hero.
AB: Is there any pressure on first time director that make this kind of films because they are becoming successful and follow the trend of other successful directors? Did you have any such inspiration while making Pehla Nasha and Baazi.
AG: No it has never been my thinking that I should make films following the prevalent trend.
AB: Your thinking and projects have been based on your personality?
AG: Personality is a big word in this context. I was more like an ignorant. I was not thinking in terms of a trend, success or anything like that. This idea was also not there that I should do something different.
My enthusiasm was this only that I have to make a film with Deepak Tijori so lets make a murder mystery.
I will call it my ignorance. Immaturity was also there.
Nobody was with me or behind me who could suggest me,? Ashutosh, Don?t make Pehla Nasha. You have chosen a wrong film. You should not make it. What will you do? First you should make a romantic film?.
There is no need to take names but sons of big producers have been launched with the proper advises from their fathers that they should make modern films but plots should be traditional.
Anybody can understand about whom I am talking. You know about these films.
Nobody was there to tell me these things.
Deepak also knew nothing. We were ignorant.
AB: So you paid for the fact that you do not belonging to any filmi family.
AG: No, I will call it lack of maturity.
Let me tell you a special think. When I get an opportunity then I don?t think about the results. I think opportunities come seldom and what is there to think then?
One should catch the opportunities.
Holi came to me and I grabbed it and did not follow any thinking before accepting it. Deepak?s offer came to me and I said,? yes?.
There is a saying in English that see before you jump and I believe in the opposite that first jump and later see.
AB: You made Lagaan after self realisation. Imagine if it had also got failure. Then?
AG: Its different matter with Lagaan. Even if it had not got success I would not have felt any shame. I have proud on this film.
After seeing first copy we were very happy and we said,?This is a film?.
If it had got failure then what could have happened?
Perhaps I could not have got further any work.
But I had no work before making Lagaan also.
I was already standing on a zero status and from there I could not have gone in to the minus level.
I had started working on Lagaan and Swades at same time. This was not the case that I started working on Swades after making Lagaan only.
Aamir had asked me,” Which film you would like to make first, Lagaan or Swades”?
Then I had thought that I needed more maturity before making Swades. That was a difficult film. I must tell you that while writing, one may create amazing feelings on paper but how to convert them in to the visuals?
That is very difficult job and therefore at that time I decided in favour of Lagaan.
AB: First actor, then director and now Producer. Now you can make films of your choice. Was it difficult to search producer in the beginning?
AG: There was no difficulty in Pehla Nasha.
But in Baazi yes, difficulties were there. Salim Akhtar Saab takes too much interest in his films. He fully participates in marketing and producing. As a producer he was fine. His demands used to enter in the script level also that change scenes here and put something there. Yes, if there was a need of 100 people then he never said that adjust with 10 people only.
Aamir Khan was the most ideal producer. Let me quote a small example. One may get English people in Colaba also. Film industry has a system and English people are brought from Colaba as they are cheaper also. I had an opinion that actors should come from England. Aamir did not object even once and gave me all kind of freedom and facilities. That is why I could make Lagaan in a way as I wanted to make it.
In Baazi, problems came on script level.
AB: Is there any pressure or interference now also? Successful director of Post Lagaan phase also does compromises?
AG: For me success means respect and appreciation. Its not necessary that your film gets success at box office but your work should generate interest in people. If film does not work at BO and you lose respect also then there may be problems.
In my case I have respect because of Swades and that?s why I could make Jodha Akbar.
I don?t pay attention to market?s demand. First one should pay attention to script and then he should concentrate on bringing that vision on screen. Introspection and self vigilance is necessary.
Now one should not make a film spending 100 Cror. How such a huge amount of money will be returned? I will not take that decision because I, myself understand the limitations.
AB: How important is the family support for a director? In your case what is the support level of your wife and children?
AG: I will call me lucky in this case. Before making Swades I asked them if they said yes only then I w?d start my company.
Our families are our audience also. After writing the story first I recite it to my family. After getting their opinions I make suitable changes. My sister is my legal adviser also. My father analyses everything. Everybody contributes at some level. I give value also to this family participation. Film?s production and administration work is looked after by my family and I take care of creative field only. I write story and make a film.
AB: You had got two biggest stars of India for Lagaan and Swades. Is it important to be dependent on stars? Do you like to take help of stars?
AG: Film?s story decides which star should work in the film. Casting is decided by the subject. You can say that any new actors could have worked in Lagaan and Swades. This is a myth that nobody else can do this role. This is not like this. Many people can do.
Film will be changed a little with different actor. Film?s making will be changed a little.
This is true that a particular person, among five actors, can be most suitable.
Lagan has a different story. I had written that story keeping Aamir in my mind.
I had done Baazi with Aamir and I wanted to impress him.
You may ask that if Aamir could not have been successful? then perhaps Laggan could not have been made.
Swades had a different matter. If I had to reach Sriperumbudur, Jaunpur, Nepani and 24 Pargana etc then I needed a face.
Shahrukh Khan had denied to do Lagaan so this was in his heart that he could have done Lagaan.
What are you making now?
Swades.
I am doing it.
I said,? fine?.
We have been co-stars.
I needed 27 year old Akbar for Jodha Akbar. It is a story till the birth of Salim. The description of Akbar which I had in mind was fulfilled by Hritik only. I approached directly Hritik only.
Results of a decision are known only after the release of a film. If a film works then director becomes visionary and he knew everything before. And if a film does not work then people say that he could not understand and now his film did not work.
AB: What is the necessity of stars in the presentation of a film? Stars seem to get highest status in the market of hindi films.
AG: When your subject is risky then there is a need to put some commercial factors in it. Definitely they should be added.
Means if I am making Lagaan then songs are there in the film. I will never make films without songs. I am very clear in this matter.
I like music and I feel that films should necessarily have songs.
If Jodha Akbar has a new boy then audience will not find same attraction which is there because of the Hritik Roshan, a known face who is an actor also.
Its not about stardom only. Acting ability should be there.
Particular actor should be chosen as per the requirement of the subject.
I can count 10 films which had wrong casting.
Sometimes when film does not work then casting looks wrong. When film works then no question is raised.
If you are asking my opinion then while making a difficult film like Swades, if I take a new boy then it may be a problem.
Jodha Akbar was not that risky but it is also true that Hritik Roshan brings an additional attraction.
AB. Why you are associated as a writer also with every project of yours? Why this department can not be given to others? Or do you think that if you are involved then writing will be right and it will be easy later to convert it in to cinematic form?
AG: Unless I like film?s concept and story I don?t start making the film.
Haider Ali gave me the concept of Jodha Akbar, immediately after the Lagaan.
Haider Ali was an actor in Nukkad.
Mughal-i-Azam was the story of Salim and Anarkali and we don?t know anything about Jodha and Akbar.
So this could be an interesting subject.
Jodha Akbar was there in my mind since 2001.
Normally writers are re-writing the films made in 70s and 80s. New stories are not coming. I feel like this. New stories are existing in the novels. Films have been made on the classic literature. New literature is not producing anything substantial.
AB: Few days back, I was talking to Yash Chopra and he said that new directors write their films on their own. This is a big shift in hindi films. What do you think?
AG: I agree to this. But I don?t find me as a writer. If you ask me to write a fiction or an essay then I will not be able to write it.
I help in the characterization, development and twists in the story while keeping visual aspects in my mind. My specialisation lies in the screen play.
If I will be judged from the literature point of view then I am quite empty.
I accept that I have not read Premchand.
I have not read Indian classic literature.
Yes I have read Marathi literature.
I have a feeling about Godan. What it is and why it was written and what was its impact? This much I know.
Now boys coming from Hindi states can say that they had read Godan in 10th standard only. They read it because it was given to them.
My generation.. sorry I will say on behalf of all? we all are empty inside.
We are city based crowd. We don?t know anything.
We have got information about mother earth from Mother India the film.
What happens in the life of a farmer we know it because we have seen Do Beegha Zameen. But this is not right.
Thoughts, which come after seeing things first hand or by reading authentic literature, are not with us. As writers also we are repeating the already written things.
AB: But visual natures of the films have to be changed. What kind of images have to be shown, how you decide this?
AG: yes, efforts remain there to bring new images. If was talk about Swades then I could not decide for six months how to bring scenes of Haridas? How to keep the train scene?
I knew what I wanted to convey but how it should be conveyed was my confusion. I wanted to talk about education but to connect the issue with the Mohan Bhargav and film was difficult and it took me six months to find the ways. Script has a demand that Mohan Bhargav comes from America and he has to take along Kaveri Amma. But how to show this?
AB: Is it writer?s bloc?
AG: No it is not writer?s bloc. I will call it concept bloc.
There is a mother. She has a daughter. There is romance etc with daughter. If we are stuck at romance then its writer?s bloc. This bloc is opened from some other film, by some advice or by any other method.
What is to be shown in the film, this should be known clearly.
What can not be shown that has to be brought in to the conversation or in the dialogues.
I had to make Mohan Bhargav saying that our nation is not the greatest country in the world but I believe that it can become the greatest nation as it has potential to become that.
Now I am making my central character delivering this dialogue in the film then where I am using this scene in the film?
I can not use it in the first half. Audience has to see the film and he should get the point that in which direction film is going?
So when hero will say it then audience will think that yes I also think in same manner.
This all comes under the craft.
If you ask me about the writer of Swades then writer is KP Saxena who gave appropriate words to my concept.
Paani mein pighal jana barf ka muqaddar hota hai (To melt in to the water is the fate of the Ice),
The day I will be able to write such a dialogue I will start treating me as a writer. I can not even think such a line.
?Chulhe se roti nikalne ke liye chimte ko apna munh jalahi ke padi? (To take bread out of the stove, tong has to burn its face)
now this is Saxena Saab.
These things come from experience and observation.
Javed saab has that talent. I encourage him and select the right thing. There is no course that may teach how to select right thing. You can not teach that art.
AB: Which kind of reactions did you get for Swades?
AG: This is slow. Seems long and looks like a documentary.
I accept all the three criticisms. If Haridas has a scene and I have to create his impact then I have to show what he is doing?
It is necessary to listen to him. And we will have to listen as per his speed only.
We have such a big problem that it can not be shown in two hours.
Realism was must for the film.
People found it documentary and preachy because of this reason. If I am making a socially relevant film then speeches and preaching will come automatically. I did not fear of that.
I had to say all those things.
I got a phone call from a collector and he asked me that how could I make such a film by living in Mumbai? What relation do I have with the villages? How could I showed everything with such a detail?
He invited me to give lecture in his institute. “When an IAS officer joins the civil service then what he should do for the villages“.
I folded my hands and said,? I am a film maker. If you see any substance in my film then please arrange a screening of my film for your people?.
Every film has plus and minus points.
If we go back to our childhood, If we talk about the popular opinion in the film watching then romance comes first and its followed by action, murder mystery and comedy and then comes family drama and in the end come socially relevant films. So socially relevant drama is lying at the bottom.
While making Swades then nobody, including Shahrukh, was thinking that this film would be breaking the record of DDLJ.
It is not possible. It can not happen.
Either film should have titles like ? Dil hai Swades.. or Swades hai mere dil mein? then perhaps audience might have thought that it was a romantic film.
I knew the outcome of my film. I did not have Box office collection. I had a fear that loss should not be there. I thought that I should make the film after a thorough research.
Earlier films having social dramas used to end with questions. I did not want to ask questions or I did not want to say more questions.
I did talk about education and self-dependency in my own manner.
AB: What is your procedure of writing? You go out of Mumbai to write?
AG: No, I don?t go out of Mumbai to write. I am writing now also. While talking to you few things occurred to me for Jodha Akbar. I will write those.
I can not write after going away from everybody. I take time in concept building. Once concept is there in my mind then I can write anywhere. My work is always going on. I note down my thoughts on phone, PC and laptop. If I am sitting with kids then also I am writing. I have a process of writing.
I give script to K.P Saxena and he takes 20 days for first draft and 15 days for second draft. He does not come here. He writes in Lucknow only.
After Lagaan I have written every film after doing a research.
AB: What message you would like to give to young directors?
AG: Study the films. Read about the films. Search books and articles through internet. Come after taking training from film schools or do self study. When meeting a director show your knowledge about cinema.
AB: Should not there be a decentralization of training in films?
AG: A thought should be given to this direction. You have raised a valid point. Regional cinema has been harmed. Everything has been centralized in the Mumbai.
The film Madholal Keep Walking, releasing on 27th August,2010, is directed by Jai Tank. Staring- Subrat Dutta, Pranay Narayan, Swara, Ashok Mishra and many more. 
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